In this episode we’ve invited two guest hosts writers Todd Dillard and Madeline Corley. They are one half of the team called The New Sledders, a group of friends that have created a writing based newsletter. In this episode we talk about friendship, creative and professional momentum, and puns!
Todd Dillard's work has appeared or is forthcoming in Sixth Finch, Guernica, Waxwing, HAD, Electric Lit, and elsewhere. His debut collection Ways We Vanish was a finalist for the 2021 Balcones [bal-cone-ease] Poetry Award and is available from Okay Donkey Press. You can find him at his website https://todddillard.wordpress.com/ or on Twitter @toddedillard
Madeleine Corley (she/her) is a writer, poet, and songwriter by internal monologue. Her work has been featured in FOLIO, Moist, Olney [ole-ney Magazine, among others. She currently serves as a Managing Editor at Barren Magazine. You can find her at her website https://www.wrotemadeleine.com/ or on Twitter @Madelinksi. One day, she'd like to own a Mystery Machine.
Marvel Verses Anthology by The Daily Drunk Mag edited by Jared Beloff: https://www.amazon.com/Marvelous-Verses-Jared-Beloff/dp/B09M2XQ7RY
Hi and welcome to Tula to Quit, the Podcast for Literary Writers Tula to Quit is an educational podcast documenting and commiserating on all things literary and writerly. I am your host, Terry Lynn Davis. In this episode, we've invited two guest hosts, writers Todd Dillard and Madeline Corley. They are one half of the team called The Newsletters, a group of friends that have created a writing based newsletter. In this episode, we talk about friendship, creative and professional momentum and puns. It's my mother's boyfriend's drumroom. But on my head. Yeah. That's great. You are a poet. You guys are both. Yeah. That was beautiful. Thank you. Mostly. Cookie, mom's boyfriend's drum room. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. This will be my third episode. Nice for coming. Yeah. So my third episode and the last one I did. And again in my children's tent, covered in blankets. No AC, 90 degrees. And I had this like a box and it sounded fine. Now is the children's tent, is that just a sound studio thing or is it an aesthetic? Okay, it's not for my own gimmick of the podcast. No. It would sound better if it's like a tight space and I don't have like a closet big enough for me to fit in. Right. So I was like, yeah, children's tent covered in blankets and pillows. I love the. What's the word? No, it's not coming to me. Ingenuity. Yes. No, maybe it is that one. Maybe it's that one. I was scared I was going to say anjenoo and I knew that was wrong, but it's something. I don't know what that word is. Anjanu. That sounds like something a French person would name a disappointing child. Oh, it's definitely an innocent or unsophisticated young woman, especially in a play or film. It's me. Wow. What are you talking about? I have two degrees in writing it's. P. Oh, I guess. So how did we started it's recording. Okay. Yeah, I recorded. Okay. And that's something I actually wrote on my notes. I'm like, hit record because I've been terrified all day. This is my first interview ever practicing on you guys. That's great. This is my first podcast ever. So this is great. I would just love this for us. I would have died laughing if you hadn't press record. And then we did the whole interview and at the end of it you're like, okay, that was a great first take. Now I'm going to record. I know. I would just drop off the face of the Earth. They'd be like, where did that girl go? And she's gone. Yeah, I think I meant ingenuity. Oh, my God. Well, I've hit record, so, I mean, unless something else happens, at least we've done that. We're kind of starting. Let's do it. So what I wanted to do was read your BIOS for everyone. So I have your BIOS here for today's episode. We have two guest hosts. We have Todd Dillard and Madeline Corley. Todd Dillard's work has appeared or is forthcoming in Six Inch Guernica, Wax, Wing Hat, Electric Lick, and elsewhere. His debut collection, Waze Vanish with a Violence for the 2021 Balconies Poetry Award and is available from Ocdonkey Press and Madeline Corley. She her is a writer, poet, and songwriter by Internal Monologue. Her work has been featured in Folio Moist, Olney Magazine, among others. She currently serves as a managing editor at Baron Magazine. You can find her at her website or on Twitter. One day she'd like to own a mystery machine. All right. I actually Googled how to say a few of those words, too. Balconies Googled that. I said that ring. I don't know, actually. I've never heard it out loud, so I'm trusting you. I did. I watched a YouTube video of it, and I listened just in case. That's great. I thought it was like, balconies. Yeah, but balconies. All right. Yeah, this is great. You guys sound impressive. Well, you know, like, now if I have a bio, I have to mention that I can say, oh, it's pronounced balcony. You've effectively changed my life. This is a great way to start a podcast. It's a cornerstone moment for you, truly. Yeah. And actually, I had to write it phonetically, too, just in case. I'll send that to you, as long as the microphone link suggestions. All right, so I'll kind of talk about how we met. I saw the newsletter on Twitter, and I think we both kind of started this project at the exact same time. So I got a DM from Maddie, it turns out, saying, I would like to be a guest on your podcast. And I would just like to say I am a subscriber to the newsletter. Oh, thank you. Yes, we appreciate that. Our one email that we've sent out so far, it was a good one. I was telling everyone I drafted my opening section, and then when it came out, I was like, everybody else's is so small. I wrote, like, 80% of what was on that email, and nobody said anything. And I was like, that's fine. I was curious how you guys actually did that. Did you just say everyone just writes something and you didn't see what anyone else had? Yeah, pretty much. Todd's was a submission via the Twitter DM group chat. It was pleased to say this. And then I think Jared might have been a little bit longer. And then Lanny was the last one to put it in, and I sent an email because we made a Gmail account, and I was like, how do you want me to get it to you? I said, you know what? Instead of getting it all in your personal inbox, we now have an email account. So I just emailed it to the email account. And then it came out, and I didn't even get it because I didn't subscribe correctly. I learned from other people that the newsletter was out to the are you sure you want to subscribe? And I didn't get that far. For reference to on my bio, I put my little one line, please help bio as a joke. And then I had work or like, a kid to take care of or a diaper to change or something. And then when I got back, it was my official bio. The letters are out. Things moved faster than even I knew they could move. It's all landing right there. Like, how quickly everything got picked up, I would say, is very much Lanny stabbed doing energy wise. She's an engine. Yeah. And that's what I wanted. It was so exciting about your project is that it seemed to move so fast. And I guess tell listeners, because there will be listeners. And usually I talk to myself alone in the tent. So this is amazing to see actual faces. So tell me, who's a part of the project? There's four of you together. So, yeah, there's four of us. I think Lanny quote tweeted somebody, or she made a tweet that said, if I had a newsletter, it would have contained these things. And then other people were like, well, if I had one, like, Jerry did one, I don't know. I think you did one too, Todd. Or people were like, if Todd had one and then said what you would put in your newsletter, it wasn't Todd's choice. It was everybody else. I don't think I've had a choice. No, I was like, this is what I want Todd to curate. And then I did one, and I think we were just on a thread for a while, and then landing messaged, the three of us. Are you serious? Would you want to do this? And we were all kind of like, will we just get to do what we want? And it's like, yeah, there's no boundaries. There's no limits. We could do it. And we were like, all right, sure. And then a day later, we had an email. Lanny had set up the send in blue. And then two days later, I made the Twitter account, like, okay, so it's official now. We have a Twitter. Yeah. And it's worked out. So we each have different sections and different sort of themes that we focus on. And mine is specifically just memes and jokes because I'm permanently online, I think, like, that often. And I have a little library of images and backlog things that I'll use for spur the moment jokes. And now I have a place to deposit those without worrying about flooding the timeline. So it's actually a bit of a relief for me. So you have kind of memes and jokes, Todd. And what are you doing, Maddie, on this newsletter? That's a great question. I'm still trying to pinpoint that. Not that I couldn't talk about a lot, but I guess I want to be a little bit more focused than I might be in my everyday life. So I'm thinking right now, I really like words. Writers do. But I'll go in these rabbit holes of why certain things are, like, etymology, not to the extent of linguistic etymology necessarily. But I'll just start Googling why arms have so many meanings. Like, why is arms like army and arms like body and those types of things. Right. So I'm thinking of that. And then also, I'm a songwriter, and I listen to a lot of music, so probably songs that I'm listening to or lines that I really like or things that stuck out and I might do existential questions. I started that in my entrance, and now I'm like, I'm going to ask people what type of preposition they would want to be or what type of conjunction just to really throw a wrench into it. Super fun. Yeah. And in the beginning of Twitter, you were doing food polls, right? With potatoes specifically. It got contentious. I think it was. I did genres of potato, and the top is like, Maddie, these are all the same. And I was like, well, yeah, I disagree not running the account, so I have to back on that. I'll have to do another poll. I haven't done one since the second iteration of potato genres, which is a very important thing to discuss. Right. So, yeah. Maddie, you run the Twitter account. I do. Unless someone else wants to join in, which at this point, nobody has raised their hand. I didn't know that it's an open account. Like, anybody can get on it. But my favorite part right now are we breaking up. What I've decided I think it's going to be is like, if any of us do things on Twitter, I can just retweet that or quote, tweet our stuff or quote, tweet things. So that's kind of what it is right now. Like, if Todd has a meme, then I just quote, tweet it and say, look at this meme. So it's effectively like you're on the account. Anyway, I just retweet and it's just fine. So you don't have to be on it. I'm not trying to drag you impulse made it. People sign up for the newsletter because they love all four of you. So you quote, reading there, everyone's kind of tweets and thoughts is exactly what people probably want to see. So I think it's good. And it's kind of funny. Lanny, actually, she seems to be a real catalyst for you, but also kind of for me, too, because she asked me, do you have a Twitter account? And I didn't. And I made one quick and I sent it to her. And it's kind of funny doing this, like, alter ego. I've never had two Twitter accounts on about you guys, but I'm, like, kind of switching back and forth. I'm talking to myself on some threads. Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. I don't think I can handle two Twitter accounts. People have recommended, like, a surreal dad tweet account. But I don't know how to divide my attention like that. Yeah, I have twelve. All of them are impulsive. Some of them are just like. And I don't use most of them, literally. It was, can I find a word that hasn't been taken by somebody else? That was a goal that I made for myself one night. And now I have a word that's technically not a word, but I'm like, well, it looks enough like one. It's fine. So I've tried making them, but I don't ever stick to them. It's a lot of work. No attention. Now, the newsletter one, that one is one I will actually use the other one's, the 12th one, that's the final one of them is one day I was like, I want to just make an account about tweeting about things that I love about people. And I was like, why don't I just do that on my own personal one? So I made the account was like, this is silly. Things like, that lovely. It is lovely. But it's called I'm a purse sob because I was sobbing when I was just. Yeah, right. So you're just like, that was a pun on person. I'm a person purse. Maybe not. I don't know. I'm just thinking about the nice thing. Like, I had some dental work done a couple of days ago, and my dental hygienist, who was a very nice woman named Kaylee, said she was proud of me. I'm still reeling that's such a nice people don't say I'm proud of you to 40 year old men. Well, in dentist, you and dentists like, it's not your favorite place to be. When I rent saw that, I was like, oh, that's a big. We don't have to go into that. No, your ice cream was really nice. You have healthy teeth, apparently. Yeah. Corn to your hygienist. That's important. Anyway, can I just say that I kind of relate to this, Todd, because when I went to the dentist and it doesn't happen as often as it should, they told me, like, you will have these teas until you die. I was like, thank you. Wow. I appreciate that. Yeah. I love the energy. I know. That's a good compliment, too. The person who checked me out at the dentist, like, when I paid my little copay or whatever, did the opposite of that. And if you don't take care of your teeth, you will die. We said that. And it's the gums. It's all in the gums. It's like everything heart disease. Yeah. This is a really good example, however, of the chemistry of the group and very meandering. And it's just like four percolators going at four different temperatures, and there's a lot of fun noise and a lot of things that come together as a result. Yeah. So if you could describe Lanny and Jared a little bit for people that don't kind of know and they can join us. Lanie actually just had she has a daughter now. Yeah, right. And this is all happening when she's waiting for her daughter to be born. Right. So how would you describe them? What do they bring to the newsletter? Lanny is definitely she has a type of energy that I aspire to. So in addition to being really creative, she's very productive and just has a razor sharp mind and is so focused and her writing is so clear and so beautiful. But she's also like, if you're at the barbecue and you're just hanging out and having a beer, she's the person you want to stand beside because she could chat it up and she could also watch people and put, like, nice, funny comments into the chat or whatever. I don't even know what word encapsulates how cool that I think she is, but she just has a really positive, funny energy. But it's not in your face. I'm glad that she's sort of leading this enterprise, and I appreciate, as I said before, she's sort of like an engine. She's pushing us forward. And Jared, I've only just gotten to know Jared. He's a really good poet, but he's only just sort of entered the poetry scene in the last two years or so. Yeah. I feel like he said he took a break for a really, really long time. I think it's only the last couple of years that he's gotten deeper into it, which, I mean, we're all blessed with. Right. And he's got a very lyrical mind and he's got a very neat, imagistic way of writing. But he's also, for me, at least, he's got that fellow parent vibe. Like, there are things that he gets and there are ways he thinks in ways that he says things that, for me, really resonate, both as a writer and a parent. I would say between the two of them, they both have a little bit more mellow energy than Maddie and myself, which is a nice and maybe necessary juxtaposition. It's a delightful thing. Topically Laney is do we know what their focuses are? Maybe you do. I definitely missed about two pages of the group chat. Wait. In the newsletter. landing writes a lot of genres. And so I don't know if that's going to be something she'll dive into, like what she's writing at the moment or what she's enjoyed, because she's also really good at both. Actually, I think both Jared and Jared, I remember seeing his tweets in the beginning. He's always somebody who does poem prompts. He'll find a tweet or like something, and they're always nature related, and it's always a timeline cleanse. And I'm like, I don't write this, but then I think about it all day, and I'm like, I want to write this poem prompt that Jared put in front of my face. And so I think Jared, I know, was talking about books that he's liked or things like that. He mentioned the other day that he started writing about a book, and then it became a book review. And he's like, oh, that's really well. So he's definitely going to be talking about things that he has enjoyed and, like reviews of books or poetry books or things that he's reading. And I imagine Lanny will probably talk about poetry as well. But I mean, again, she's getting into flash. She has worked on novels. She's done fiction. She's done so much. So I don't know if she's going to kind of cover a lot or focus on process or what have you. So I'm excited to see what they do because I don't know what my section is named right now. It's called name TBD. And I keep trying to figure out what it's going to be about, and maybe I'll just call it name TBD. Is it true? Who knows? Or Brian Storming? I mean, I don't know Brian Storm. I love newsletters, and I guess I'm a subscriber. How many subscribers do you guys have yet, do you know? I know 100 was the goal, and I know that you met that within the day. I could check right now, I don't have it off top. Lanny was giving us the updates because she was the one being like, look, guys, we're at like 80, but that's not enough. And I was like, I mean, Lanny 250 is the new 100. I was trying to like, but she's much better. She's much better at traction than I am. So over 100. I think the most exciting thing for me, when I told people, I was like, I'm doing a newsletter with my friends just because and people who are not in the writing life like, it for me, like my coworkers or my friends, they're like, I'm going to subscribe. And I'm like, wait, really? That's been really nice. When I tell them about it, they're excited that I'm excited, and they're like, well, I want to know what you guys are doing, even without knowing the other three of my wonderful coast letters. So that's fun because then I get to show them these people that I hang out with and love and adore. And I'm like, look, we're doing this together. So I'm Super jazzed about that. Yeah, I like to the forebed and how it's almost like I don't know what it's called, but my wife, every year for her birthday, her parents get here. It's a mystery box. It's sort of like Master Chef, where you open it up and there's ingredients. You have to make something. But this is like, things that she can pamper herself with. And once a month or maybe once a quarter, she gets a box filled with really fun stuff that she gets to pamper herself with, and she doesn't always know what's in it. There's, like, surprises, and there's some things you can kind of know what's coming. But I feel like that's a really fun format for a literary newsletter, because you never know what you're going to get, but it will be relevant to your interest somehow. And maybe it'll make you laugh. Maybe it'll make you think. Maybe make you cry. Really going for the tears. Probably not cry. Really going for the tears. Guys, let it be known. Yeah, that was a nice summary. That was really pretty. How did you guys come up with the name? The logo is a sled. I love sled. So we created the chat, and then we were like, okay, well, what will we call our newsletter? And I was like, I like puns. And sometimes I think things are puns when they're not, but I think this one is. I'm never sure. I think I think everything is a pun now if I think it's funny, and that's not actually true, but I made the joke, or I said, well, we could call it the newsletter. Like, the newsletter, they sound the same. And it was through the process of trying to actually establish an email account that we could set things up at that I was like, there's nothing so basic. That's just newsletter, because we don't want to call it anything, like, beyond it's the newsletter we're doing. We didn't have anything else. And so the name that was actually available was newsletter. And I'm like, people know what it is because it sounds like the newsletter. Right? And for listeners, that is N-E-I love that. I get to because of the name. Make snow references. Like, we get to literally slide into your inbox. Like, genuinely slide right in. That's not an overstatement. That's real. No, I love that. Who made the logo? Lanny. Lanny made it. I did my logo, too, on Canva, and I spent, like, two days making that logo. It is hard. I designed the images for Lanny's next book cover, and that kind of graphic design and stuff is very time consuming and very difficult. It's a great cover, though. It's a great shirt now because what a great. I saw that on Twitter. So she actually has a shirt of the cover that she made the cover. That's very cool. That was almost as blown away as I'm sure lady was. Very. It was a present. Yeah. Kate, her wife gave it. That's so soft. Yeah. It's so thoughtful. Right? I love. I don't get nothing. You got a tent? I bought that tent time. I didn't buy it for the occasion, though. I had it lined. I have a few tents. All right. A few tents. Like, all different types of tents. Are they all do you have past tense and future tense? Yeah, we get tons. Contents intense. Oh, wow. You're good at this. You should put that in the newsletter. Have you guys ever met? Are you all over the place? So Maddie is sort of the person who's met everybody but Jared. Yes. I have not met Jared. So the first time I met Lanny was summer of 2020. Her and Kate took a trip. They drove from Michigan and they drove down to Georgia and they just did like a road trip. So we met. We like stood outside in a park. It was great. And it was funny, cause at that point, Lanny and I had known each other for, I think we met end of 2018, early 2019. So we've known each other for a decent period of time, but we had never met in person. And so it was one of those surreal but nice from Nodding Hill moments where it's like, is this actually happening? Because I talk to you all the time. But then it's like, lady messaged me. I still think this is funny. She messaged me and was like, did you like me? And I was like, well, of course I was going to like you. We talk every day. But I also understand what that was because then I met Todd last year too. And it was also one of those moments of like, we talk all the time, but here we are in each other's presence and you're like, it was so different, but in a good way. I've yet to meet Jared. He's in New York. I have not been in other than being in Philly, I haven't been in the general New York area. So he's on my list. And then I've got all three trifecta. Did you like her, Todd? Did you like Maddie? I did very much. I didn't think it was weird. I thought it was weird. No, when I say weird, it was a good weird. It was kind of like, is it really happening? It just feels like, no, not weird. No, it's fine. Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Lenny and I have an energy that feeds off each other and it just replicates itself in person. And our buddy Lee was there. Lee, he's the poetry editor. Yes, he's a poetry editor at Barry and I'm an editor contributor at large. I haven't read for submissions for a little while because I have a little one, but yeah, Maddie came to meet both Lee and myself and it was fine. We went to like a German beer hall. We had some pretzels and some beer. It was really good. Yeah. We used to have a standing like every other Friday or so meeting with the Baron staff. That was mostly just Maddie, myself, Lanny and Lee and our friend Ain't and some other people. And it was just nice. We typically have some drinks and we would just talk shop or talk about our lives. That was a big bastion for me during the pandemic was like almost every Friday. We were doing that because I recently flew out to Michigan for Lanny's baby shower. And it was the best. But people were asking, they were like, how do you know Lanny? And I was like, this is the second time we've met in real life, and they were like, what? I was like, yeah, no question. Of course I was going to be here, but it was. I got distracted in my own brain. I just cursed. Apologies. Explicit on here. Yes. So that would definitely be. That was something that. Thank you. So doing that every Friday, I guess having that consistency with that group and establishing those relationships made it no question that if I'm in Philly, of course I'm going to go see Todd, because, again, I talked to Todd every day, and we had a consistent thing, probably for over a year, we were doing that. So I'm like, I had seen Todd, Lanny, Lee like this group of humans that I adore more often than I had seen so many other people in my life that I was like, of course, these are the closest people in my current sphere. And so it was lovely to meet both Todd and Lanny in person and have that, too. And I'm excited when I get to meet Jared, which I will make Kevin. I can't wait to meet both of them, too. I mean, Jared and Lanny, we also talk every day. It's amazing what the Internet's done. I hate to sound like an old like that, but I've really connected with all my main beta readers I've met through just tweeting. Yeah. So did you all meet at Baron magazine? Is that how you started talking? I submitted to Baron. And why did I submit to Baron? I liked Lee. And so I think Lee jumped on and I liked Lee's writing. I don't know. He's the closest to pointillisms that I think a poet could possibly be, because the way he puts down every word on the page is so purposeful and just wrought with attention. And I just can't not admire that level of dedication artistry. So when I saw he was reading for Baron, I wanted to submit, and I did. And then they accepted my palm, and Maddie and Lanny had some feedback that they provided, which took a B minus column and turned into an A plus. That was great. And it particularly came at a time where I hadn't had an acceptance in months, and they sort of broke that negativity. So I always remember that. And a couple of months later, I was signing a book contract, and I just always look back at that moment and see that as maybe this happens to other writers. But I feel like when you're first getting off, first getting started, things start off seemingly either not well or maybe they're going great. I don't know, for me, they were going great, but then I just plateaued. And that Plateau felt like the deepest of valleys. And because of Baron, because of me admiring Lee, because of Maddie and Lanny and their excellent feedback, I was able to move beyond that and become a better writer. And, you know, I'm improving every day, and I just kind of look back at that and think of them and appreciate that. I don't know I've ever told you that Maddie nice. Yeah. Maddie's doing a heart with her hands. I don't have words. It's just the heart hands. Yeah. Now Maddie is one of my main beta readers. If I think something is deserving, I sent it to her and the rest is history. Yeah. Thank you so much for giving that kind of background. My last episode was actually, like, advice on how to build a literary community because I think one of the worst fears I had, like, when I started writing was that I was just going to stop because I also have kids. I have three kids, and I was just like, everything fights against me and I don't have any writers around me, so I was just giving advice or just ways that I could stay in the literary community. And Twitter was definitely one of them. And reading for Lip Mags was another. But submitting to Lit Mags for you is kind of how you found your people. Yeah. And, you know, I joined Twitter after a break because two of my close friends from MFA program were on it. And I was just like, I just sort of jumped on their coat tails. One of them is named Broken Gujar. He's SAS, who lives in Chicago, who is no longer on Twitter, decided it wasn't for him. And one's Nina Polari, who is an excellent poet. Both of them were my roommates when I went to Sarah Lawrence from MFA. And then, I don't know, I just sort of chatted with them a bit, and then I connected with other writers and it just Twitter took off for me. Yeah. But it didn't really become like a real. Oh, this is my community now until about 2018, and now I tweet every day. I'm so online. I know. I love your stuff. Thank you. Yeah, I do. How long have you been on Twitter? I've been on Twitter for over a decade, but I should preface. I made it and then didn't use it for a really long time. Yeah, same. Like, I had my tenure. I was like, oh, my God, a lot of it was like, I used it a lot when I was in College, more so. But that was very specific. I went to Ohio State, and so it was like, Ohio State tweets or like, look, the campus, like the bus broke down, like that type of stuff in the beginning. I started writing poetry more seriously after my senior year, and I got on Twitter, or I just started like, I don't know how I found things, but Baron, I found when it was in its fledgling days, and I submitted and Jason offered me really good feedback on a piece that ended up being taken by Night's Library and got nominated for Best of Net from them, which was that was my first one, and I got to Jason B. Crawford is an incredible poet and friend. And they were like, hey, this is news. And I was like, Wait, that's my first. So it's just like, it was a really good round moment where the first thing that made me even interested in Baron because of that experience with Jason. And then Alyssa Hannah gave me really wonderful words about something for someone who had only been submitting for about five, six months. So then when I saw the call of like, do you want to be on the team? I was like, well, you guys made me feel like $1,000 or more like a good. You know what I mean? Really good. So I submitted, and Jason was like, yeah, sure, why don't you try this? And then that's how I became poetry editor. And then that's how I met Lanny. That's how I met Todd. That's how I met Lee. Like, all of this stuff. And that came from just being on Twitter and looking for calls for submissions and then maintaining it. And it really happened. I look back, and I was like, oh, my gosh, I just happened to be on the Internet at the right time. And that's really what it was. I just saw it and was like, I'll submit it. We might as well just try it out. And now it's the place where I see other people's work. I see calls for submissions. I get excited about reading other people's things. I find things that are about to close, that are about to open. And I am less of a recently, I haven't been submitting as much. It takes me a lot of energy to sit down and send one thing. So when I do it's, like, I send six, and then I don't do it for three and a half months. I'm like, no, that's it. We're done so much of it is like, oh, well, I saw that this call was about to close, so I'm like, I might as well try it out. And that's literally just because I saw it on Twitter at the same time. So for me, Twitter has definitely been a big fuel, community wise. But then also for my own, like, you got to try it like you wrote it. Might as well see if somebody wants to read it too much. I don't submit to places unless they have a Twitter presence. And I see the call for submissions or people mentioned it on the timeline, or someone shares a poem published in a Journal. And I'm like, oh, this is great. I read some more, and I'm like, I would love to see this Journal stuff. I can't do the same thing with the Twitter presence because, like, you were saying, Maddie is like, I forgot what it is. I'm the same way as you may. I don't know what just happened. I lost it, but my brain is making connections, and this is why I have like 50 minutes of audio that I cut down to like 20 minutes, like, why I was so excited to have you on because I followed both of you, and I've apologized you for a while. I just started getting on Twitter, too. But what's so interesting to me about your newsletter is that you kind of took this momentum from Twitter and Twitter and other writers have just been this catalyst for these really cool projects. And like, you were saying, Todd, and you were saying, Maddie, that you have to be online at the exact right time. Sometimes it's kind of like fate. And that's kind of what happened with this newsletter. Everything just kind of had to come together and you had to take forgive me the cliche, but like the Bull by the horns. And that's how this and this is why you're doing this really cool newsletter. And this podcast is kind of for people that are just starting out and don't. But some people don't know anything yet, which is why it's kind of cool, kind of educating people, giving them what we may have wanted to have in the beginning. So I guess maybe do you want to tell us anything about your experience with just, I guess, staying ready or seeing that there's excitement about an idea or just being at the right place and the right time, but also, like, following through with cool things? You know, that's a great question. One of the reasons why I like the podcast excuse me, the newsletter name is I love the podcast, too. It has the sort of implication of momentum that's built by going down a Hill in a way month. Yeah. We're already. And the thing is you can't do that unless you've built something up or you're on something that's already built up. Yeah. And I think with regards to your question, building a literary community, being a reader for a lip bag, reading and submitting to literary magazines, and even just something as basic as sharing your literary loves. Like, I love this poem. This is great things like that. I think momentum starts there. And that doesn't say you love something that someone's written that doesn't necessarily build them intimate self, but it certainly endears other people to you. When you share something you love, you're sharing both an honesty and a vulnerability. But you're also adding to a greater conversation that hopefully the most of the literary community wants to be part of, which is like, we love literature. And I think there's also in building that community up and connecting with individual people, there is a bit of I've already called it like an exchange of energy. But if you find the right people, you create the right chemistry, and that could serve as a way to move forward and a way to motivate yourself and a way to start projects that have momentum you may not have realized was there until you actually started it. I think that is an answer. I don't want to speak for both Matty and myself, but for me, that's what it is. And the connections that I make, even in passing on Twitter as a reader for Baron. And then the deeper relationships that I've built by having such wonderful people like Maddie and Jared and landing my life, I think that has kept a lot of my vitality, vital, vitality, vitalized. Yeah. Good answer. I want to try. That was really. I mean, I'm just going to add on because yes, to all of that, that's a thumbs up. Ten out of ten. Totally concur, I think for me. So I haven't been submitting, and I haven't been writing a ton of poetry recently. And it's not to say that I'm not doing other things. Actually. It's interesting how I will write songs. But then I think about I haven't written a poem in a month. And I'm like, but it's not that I haven't written five songs last week. I just haven't written a poem. And I have to remember it's still creating it's just so that's been my space. But I think some of the relationships that led to other things that now I share work with people came out of, oh my gosh, I love this piece. Or it was in this Journal. Or like, wow, I really enjoyed this. And then that turns into a side conversation individually. I mean, Taylor Bias and I are friends because we are tweeting at each other. And then I DMT. Her. And then we were like, we're doing this every day. Do you want to text? And now we text a lot. And so that all just came slowly over a couple of months. And then now we chat everything. And I will send Taylor poems that I'm working on. I'll send Todd poems that I'm working on, and often I don't send them anywhere else. And a big part for me right now is sending something to people that I care about their opinion and know that they support what I do, even if it goes nowhere else. And just like, that moment of like, yeah, this is good. Or I think this is something you could adjust. Like, just the care that goes into sharing on an individual level is something that sustained me when I haven't been submitting as much myself or putting work out there in a publishing sense. But that definitely came after those relationships took time. Like, Todd and I weren't fast friends overnight. I don't think we could have been. But it was a slow setting thing. I don't know. Overnight, I don't want people to assume that we were like, yeah, you're cool. Yeah, you're cool. And then all of a sudden we just send each other poems all the time. It was a developmental thing. And in the lunchroom situation, if you and I ended up seating each other at the same table, we wouldn't have changed tables. I think that's a really good way to define it. I think that's important. We wouldn't stay and enjoyed each other. We would have been like, this beautiful. We were lynch friends. But, like, being Len friend doesn't become necessarily beta readers. And like, someone that I drive with my art. Right, exactly. Yeah. That doesn't happen overnight. So I think too, like, the things that have been sustaining me in a period where I haven't been sending things out in the way that I used to, and that's also been kind of like I mentioned, I've been writing songs and not poetry. That conversation with myself of, okay, this is still worth it. If I write something and it doesn't go anywhere or I should send it to one or two people. That type of substantiation for myself has been really important to my creative process. But that type of thing came about after months and months and months of building up trust and encouragement and support. And that only came about from, like, being in community with each other in different fashions. So the things that I am most grateful for, the people that I'm most grateful for, the relationships. I mean, Todd, Lanny, Jared, I think the newsletter is going to be really fun because we're all just excited to have a reason to just do whatever we want with each other. It's not just me sending out, oh, gosh, I got to do my own newsletter. If Todd wants to write a paragraph or send one meme, we're like, cool, that's awesome. If I'm like, I'm busy. Here's a picture of a frog. That'd also be cool, too. It's just us kind of hanging out with each other and really being excited about that. And I think that's why I'm excited that other people are excited that we're excited. It's just an excitement back loop. That's what it is. I want to Echo a little bit too, because I think what you said with regards to sending things out to your friends and then that's enough. I also think that's actually a really good way to sustain momentum because I feel like a lot of times when people are trying to build a community and submitting to journals, they value acceptances as a metric for work. And that's just not how the poetry community is, even though if at times it seems how it is and oftentimes how it acts. But yeah, I feel the same way. Like if Maddie or my other beta readers, like Cindy Randall or Ben Klein, if they read my work and they say, this is done, I feel like I've just gone into 9th letter or something like that. I feel like, okay, great, I don't have to do. Which may be why I have like 300 pages of material that I haven't really tried to publish. But also at the same time, if I pinned my hopes on those types of acceptances instead of pinning my hopes on those types of relationships. I don't think I would be writing as well as I am today. And I don't think I would have the momentum that I do. And I hope that with the newsletter, what we're going to try to do is give a piece of that sort of shared community and positivity and motivation to people who are willing to subscribe. And also, as Maddie said, there might be a picture of a frog, but we hope it will be a useful picture of a frog. Yeah, exactly. It'll be informational. Right. But I also hope that this is like interactive. If you're starting out and you have questions and you want the full gamut of experience and age and interest to reply and answer those questions, I think that's something that we should be able to do, too. Yeah. I try to answer people slide into my DMs and ask me questions and stuff like that. I try to make myself available. But I think this is another forum for that, too. Yeah. I'm just, like, so enamored by the actual sled now that we've talked about all of this, just like it all connects so beautifully. It's just like with all of the connections that you built with each other and just kind of this even with the writing community so that you kind of know, you know, what's going on on Twitter, you're aware of the calls and with all of this kind of work that is like front loaded, and now you're sliding down this beautiful creative Hill, and everyone that subscribes can kind of just benefit from this creative energy that you've built with each other. And it's beautiful. I love the sled so much. You guys have to write about that. I'm so happy that I said it as a joke and it became the thing. I feel like that doesn't happen. When we were talking last night, I was talking about how it's interesting because usually when I think of sledding, the first thing that comes to mind is this image of the Charlie Brown, like snow, these perfectly animated white Hills, but then also they're kind of page white in a way. And then what does this lead do? Leave a kind of cursive on it. I love this whole like, the metaphor builds up. The writing of it builds up. I think it's you're right. I'm hoping it's a beautiful thing. If it isn't. You said it first. We're putting on our record right now. Right. I guess you have editing abilities so you can slow your voice down. It's not like me. Oh, my God. I'm going to play around a little bit. I'm still working it out in Audacity. So I wanted to also say that I'm going to show you this the marvelous version that you guys are both in. I don't know if you know, but I'm also in this one. Oh, yeah. So this is Jared edited the anthology Marvelous Verses with Daily Dress universe in the Daily Drunk. And. Yeah. So you guys are both in this. You both have homes in this one. Did you go to the reading? I did, actually. I was days after having my third child. Oh, yes. Oh, wow. Yeah. I was on the little Zoom reading. Yeah, that was such a fun. That was a fun reading. I know. And I love Marvel Universe so much. And I saw that call, and that's how I met Jared, and I follow him, but, yeah, actually, it's kind of interesting. I don't want to be creepy right now, but our names are all in order. That's true, because it's alphabetical. Stop it. Oh, my gosh. Am I creepy right now? No. Yes, but the right amount. I was looking to see if Lanny was on there. She's more of a DC person, right? Is she? Yeah, she has DC vibes. Okay. for that. So Jared worked with me on the piece that's in there, which was great. I had a block, Todd. I sent him a version, and Todd was like, this is not ready or forcing it. And I was like, I was into space because I really wanted to write about vision. And I was like, I'm not writing about anybody else. That's who I'm writing about. That is what it's going to be. And if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. But I was like, indignant. I would come home from work, and I was like, Mum and dad, I have not figured out this poem. And they're like, Weren't you supposed to be working today? And I was like, I was. But I was thinking about this. So Jared worked with me on that, which is really great. And that was one of the things again when I got to know him better. And then we were like, yeah, let's do this. I was like, Heck, yeah. Jared's another person who made me feel like a million dollars. Yeah. I love that anthology. That's such a good time. You could buy that, right? Yeah, buy it online. I think it's probably Amazon. I bought three copies, and I'm trying to send them to people because Marvel is just everybody has something that they love about Marvel in some way. Yeah. It was such a fun thing to work on, and I'm so happy that I wasn't in a rut, but I was just really writing puzzles. I'm so glad I was able to do something with that and contribute, because I could not stop thinking like, Hustles in Hustles. That's true. Yeah. Form is not your I got the poem and the anthology, and I quit writing form merely after an itch to scratch. It's an exorcism of form. So you had vision. Maddie, what was your home about? Bullseye. I wrote a Bullseye hustle. Okay, okay. I wrote about a super villain. I did. So I think I was I had to write about villains because I'm so interested in villains. And it was like a really short, kind of, like, mean poem about perspective of, like, a super villain. And then I felt kind of bad afterwards. I was like, oh, there's some really beautiful poems in this, and I'm just talking about, like, Thanos theology. I'm like, listen, oh, my God, I could talk about this all day. There is an element of poetry that it doesn't give me highs, but there's, like, the poems that sound like palms aesthetic, and it just rattles me with that, like, Star Trek Captain Kirk voice, you know what I mean? That stilted, sort of like reading and stuff. And I love it when a palm breaks out and breaks away from that. Yeah. You just had a poem. Did you just have a poem come out about? I did. It came out today. It came out today. It was off of a conversation that Julian and Todd, Julian Day and Todd were having, and Todd made a dad joke, and I couldn't stop thinking about it. And then I wrote a poem that ended up becoming about interview with a vampire because I was in my vampire Renaissance, my second one in the last two years. And then that is what occurred. And Aaron was like, this is cool. And I was like, thanks. And here we are. It's a long way of saying yes. Subscribe to the newsletter. Yes. And when is the next one coming out? We don't know yet. We have a theoretical I've been drafting what mine is going to be, and then I got nervous it would be too wordy. So now I'm going to have to cut it down. We haven't discussed word count, which I think I'm overthinking it, but it hopefully will come out. I am overthinking it. I know. I'm not just trying. I think it's going to come out June 10. Yes. Lenny has a baby that's a few days old. So I think all timelines in this instance are variable and probably will be, I don't know, because you have the four months sleep progression, then you have eight months sleep regression. So if this is a newsletter you're looking for for consistency, the consistency will be in the quality and the frequency. Yeah, very important note. It will be sporadic, which is good. Yeah, that's perfect because snow is sporadic. Right? That's true. It's snow tonight and you're getting a newsletter. Yeah, exactly. Like, oh, is that Santa Claus? No, it's just your newsletter. It's so perfect. It works so many ways to say that in December. Oh, my God. Yeah. Well, thank you very much. Thank you so much for coming on my podcast, for reaching out, for hanging out with me. It's been so nice to meet both of you. It's kind of like it's cool to actually I've never actually met someone from Twitter. This is the first time I've done it. You guys are real people. We are not I think we're also two examples of people who are the same. I think in person as we are. I would hope so. I mean I think you are yes I don't know how to be different because I'm already so unfortunately different. Yeah, I feel like you almost feel like you know people from Twitter but yeah, you guys definitely translate in person as the same. Thank you so much for coming. It has been so nice talking to you both. It's been so fun. Yeah, it's been so nice. You can come on anytime you want. I'll come back to my mom's boyfriend's drum room and I'll set up shop. This was delightful so I had a lot of fun. Thank you so much for having alright so I'll see you guys on Twitter right? Thanks for having us.